Perch "The Thoughtful Pause Podcast"
Welcome to the Perch Podcast Channel: The Thoughtful Pause Podcast
Perch stands for Pause, Evaluate, Responses to Circumvent Harm, a philosophy inspiring meaningful conversations. Hosted by Tricia Porter and Toby Malbec, seasoned business professionals and life partners, this podcast blends decades of expertise with a mission to foster understanding. Guided by the belief that where you sit determines what you see, and what you see determines what you do, they explore how experiences shape perspectives and how expanding our worldview fosters empathy.
From different races, worlds, and viewpoints, Tricia and Toby tackle complex topics with curiosity and a commitment to positive change. Unafraid of controversy, they challenge listeners to embrace a higher perspective and see differences as opportunities for connection. Whether seeking personal growth or a fresh lens on life, Perch is more than a podcast—it’s a mission. Join us to pause, reflect, and rise to higher ground.
Perch "The Thoughtful Pause Podcast"
Religion ~ When a Belief Becomes an Absolute
Religion shapes our identities, communities, and worldviews, but what happens when it becomes a rigid boundary instead of a bridge to understanding? If religion is considered a taboo subject, how can we ever develop a deeper connection with people who think and believe differently than we do?
With over 4,000 religions worldwide, we explore whether the structure and community of faith draw us in or if there’s something more profound we’re all seeking. What happens when faith’s boundaries stop meaningful dialogue? Can love, a value shared by so many religions, transcend these divides?
Through personal stories and reflection, we ask the tough questions about faith, belonging, and whether religion can adapt to our diverse, ever-changing world. Why do some beliefs foster connection while others create division? How can openness and understanding reshape our faith and our lives?
Let’s tackle these questions and open the door to honest conversations about what matters most.
Remember, your Perch isn’t just a place to sit; it’s a place to seek a higher perspective.
Greetings, salutations and permutations, fellow perchlings and followers of the Church of Perch, here we are today. Yes, well, today's topic is religion.
Speaker 2:Oh my God so.
Speaker 1:I figured we will create our own religion today. Today, we will be.
Speaker 2:Toby is by himself in creating his own religion. This is not Tricia.
Speaker 1:Please be clear See she cannot distance herself quickly enough from this topic.
Speaker 2:Not at all.
Speaker 1:But today we will be talking about religion on the Perch. There are few powers more uniting and dividing than the power of religion. For many, religion appears to offer hope or redemption, and that might explain why more people find religion as they age, since they are looking their mortality square in the eye. We all want to believe there's something more, especially as we're reaching the proverbial putting green on our own 18th hole. Believers will follow their religion, dare I say religiously. Even though there are 4,000 recognized religions in the world today, there's statistically a .025% chance that their denomination actually has it all right, but to what degree does that really matter? Perhaps it's the fact that religion has rules, structure, process and brotherhood that, at the end of the day, appeals to its followers beyond any definitive proof. Therefore, it may be that the structure that encompasses the particular religion, which is what provides the comfort and sense of belonging, more than the knowing of whether it all says and believes and is actually
Speaker 1:true. We are complex organisms and we are capable of being loyal to an idea or belief. In much the same ways, we can be loyal to something more organic, say a spouse or a sibling. We don't have to touch it or feel it, or even have proof that it's real and exists for us to declare our loyalty to something. Loyalty is an interesting concept. The idea that we sign on and derive some sense of comfort or belonging, or even purpose is a fascinating notion. Psychologists have long studied the emotional ties associated with loyalty and, while many of the internal motivations remain a mystery, it's clear that we, as social beings, we strive to belong and to adapt, to fit in and feel safe, and these are all inherent benefits of loyalty and something we're going to ponder today on the Perch we're gonna ponder today on the perch.
Speaker 1:Well, you said a lot.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying you blew my mind, you didn't even bust my mind. Maybe a little popcorn.
Speaker 1:Mine popcorn.
Speaker 2:Mine popcorn Welcome. Welcome what's up tree. So we're talking religion.
Speaker 1:We are. How was your Thanksgiving?
Speaker 2:I'm thankful.
Speaker 1:Okay, there we go.
Speaker 2:That's all we can be. We're talking religion. We're talking Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1:You can't run away from this topic fast enough can you?
Speaker 2:No, I don't. I really so I can't pick a topic and then want to run from it. That would be kind of cowardice, right.
Speaker 1:And you know, I think the disclaimer that I would say is is we're not going to put our thumb on the scale of whether there is god or there isn't god. It's really about the idea of people being loyal to something kind of, along with the series right something that they can't touch necessarily or feel.
Speaker 1:It's a belief, it's a following and and it's it's how it makes you feel it's again. I guess our last episode where we talked about loyalty and saying is there really loyalty to a company? Is it really more loyalty to yourself? Is that how it's changed? People are very loyal to their religion.
Speaker 2:And that's why, for me, I did pick religion and I'm not afraid of this topic, and I understand this is one of those subjects where people aren't comfortable talking about it. But it would be disingenuous to do a series on four parts of loyalty and not bring up religion when it's one of those areas that people have very strong beliefs, for or against, and they're loyal to their beliefs if they believe or they don't believe. So I think it's important. And then another reason, the most important reason I thought that you know you can't change what you don't acknowledge, and the fact that we are afraid to talk about religion because we're afraid to offend, we're afraid to insult or, like you said, to put your thumb on a scale, but it's imperative.
Speaker 2:We wouldn't be perched. The essence of perch is to pause and evaluate responses to circumvent harm. That's the basis of who we are. So, and religion is the biggest conversation to have in its space Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter where our loyalties lie. We still need to be able to hear people and if we don't have conversations, we don't learn the ability to listen to views or ideas and thoughts.
Speaker 1:That's different. It almost seems like the last mile of compassion, to a degree. And you know, in my opening monologue there it said you know, in the history of the world there has been nothing more uniting and divisive as religion. And you know, and religion can unite us, you know, and it can create all kinds of atrocities, and it's really a shame that that, baked into so many religions, is a sense of intolerance that says this is the way.
Speaker 1:And as we, you know, we talked about here at the beginning, there are 4,000 recognized religions in the world today. They can't all, by definition, be right. You know, 85% of the world identifies with a religious group, the four biggest ones being Christianity, judaism I'm sorry five Christianityianity, judaism, islam, buddhism and hinduism and the. The irony is that muslims and buddhists, their beliefs, are completely opposite to the point where muslims believe there is a personal god who's omniscient and omnipotent, and that heaven and hell awaits every person, whereas the buddhists believe there is no personal God, the world is eternal, man has no soul and there is no heaven or hell and sin is purely an illusion. So they're completely at odds with each other and yet somehow we need to coexist on this ball that's rolling around the universe, and understand that just because my belief isn't the same as yours doesn't make me any better or worse than you.
Speaker 2:I think, for me, what I've always found fascinating and powerful about religion is that their God is like, not only did you say omnipotent, but their God is so big and so mighty and so powerful that he can't be limited like he, and even and I'm going to talk about Christianity because that's that's my belief and and where I was raised but even in Christianity it's fascinating. Well, we know and we'll say that his thoughts are above our thoughts and his ways are above our ways, but some of us so clearly think we can articulate his thoughts and clearly think we can articulate his ways.
Speaker 2:Therefore, we make wrong everyone and every religion. That's outside of that and to me it's, it's, it's just oxymoronic. I was like, wait, I, I, I can't, I can't wrap my mind around it. That's why I don't have religious debates. I don't, I, I was like, because I do believe that I, I am a believer, but I leave room for it to be so far beyond my understanding and my and in my ability to articulate that I'm not going to debate you in it, because when I debate you, I am there, therefore, now a voice, and when I come, I got to come correct and that's the. That's the problem with it, because it's the rigidity. It's really rigid and religion is very and I have some, some psychological things that they say about that. That's part of the problem. And if we are in religion and if at the base of your particular belief is love, love is not rigid because love hides a multitude of faults so it's all the things that you know and it's, and it's so.
Speaker 2:That's why people struggle with religion and believe it, and that's why religious people have an issue with people like me ever saying that they're spiritual because they were like they feel like it's the coward's way out.
Speaker 1:It's funny because we've talked about this on previous episodes. I grew up in a very non-denominational house and I believe that people may differ with this belief, but I believe that it allows me to look at something like religion in an objective manner, because I don't have a dog in the hunt. I didn't grow up as a and therefore I have to either prove or disprove or defend that position. So when you pick this topic, I looked at it really as a scholarly pursuit to try to understand religion and ask myself basic questions Is there a God? Do I believe there's a God? Is there evidence to support that there's a God? Does it really matter and this may be blasphemous does it really matter what form that God takes? Can we all agree that there may be, and there probably is, a being or a something that is greater than all of us?
Speaker 1:And this idea where people say, well, if I can't touch it, smell it, feel it doesn't exist, and that's just so myopic, that's just such a silly way to look at it, and I know that as we were doing this research, both you and I were spending a lot of time doing research and there's some great stuff on YouTube about really the beginning of the universe and the Big Bang, and how does life appear from the lifeless? And there are some very interesting things and you start to read them and say even the scholars, even the academics, even the scientists say we don't get how you go from nothing to something right. Something had to change and so it almost does speak to the existence of some superior life form and whether you call that God or Allah or whatever your belief believes in, we should probably start with that as a basis and stop hating somebody because they're a Seventh-day Adventist or they're a Christian scientist, or they're Islamic or Buddhist, and just all agree, start with the most baseline and say can we all agree that there's something greater than us?
Speaker 2:For me, and maybe this is just far too simplistic and its simplicity becomes radical, but for me, I don't understand the debate Meaning and I'm going to perch, I'm going to put it in a different light. I'm not going to debate if I'm a woman. I'm not going to debate if I'm an African-American woman. I'm not going to debate that I'm a mother. I am very clear on all those things. So say what you want to say. So if people who debate religion are clear on their belief and how they feel and the God that they serve, in whatever capacity, why are we fighting? I mean, if someone sees it different, why is it wrong that they see it different? Am I crazy?
Speaker 1:No, but one of the challenges is baked into the DNA in so many religions is that this is the righteous path. This is the way. This is the word, and part of that we'll get back to what we're talking about here. Part of the loyalty is I'm loyal to that word, so I have to believe excuse me that this is what happened. Because if you now turn around and say I know I told you it was this, it's really more like this, then that rocks people's sense of loyalty.
Speaker 2:But wait, I want to stop you right there, Because at the core of what you just said, at the foundation of what you said, is I have to believe that's personal, so you believe that. Believe it, and I think this is at the core of most of our fundamental fights and arguments. You believe it. There's nothing wrong with you believing, but the fight comes when someone else believes different. Now, if someone else it's, I get the back and forth. When you are now trying to take something I believe away, that's a different conversation, meaning.
Speaker 2:So the debate of you know, should we pray? Where should this be, where should that be? Then I get that, because now someone feels like they're taking something away. I don't agree with it, but then, but what I'm saying is we, we, we fight this debate every day. Every day, it's like for or against. You you're with. Your religion isn't real and and that's a false god, and this you know, christianity is the only way. And I was like but that's your choice, right? Just like Muslims, you know, allies their way. That's their choice. I fight for the Muslims to have their choice, because I want to have mine. And I don't understand why we can't meet in the middle and say I don't want you telling me what to believe. I want to be able to believe what I want to believe.
Speaker 2:I worship the way I want to worship, but because of my love, I want you to be able to believe what I want to believe. I worship the way I want to worship, but because of my love, I want you to be able to do the same.
Speaker 1:That's where I was going to go. Loyalty is not synonymous with intolerance. It doesn't mean I'm loyal to this, then therefore I can't believe in that or I can't do that. Loyalty should be to thyself, right. So I'm loyal to this church. I believe in it, I believe in its values, I don't believe in abortion or I believe in marriage and all those things, but that should not make you intolerant to other people who think differently.
Speaker 1:So I mean, I remember the big hubbub years ago where people said we can't wish people Merry Christmas. Well, why not?
Speaker 2:I mean you might turn around and say well, because they don't believe in Christ, and that's fine, and they're not Christians.
Speaker 1:Show tolerance to those people too. Or I could say Happy Kwanzaa. Or I could say Happy Hanukkah. Now you may turn around and say, well, I'm Christian. Oh then, merry, people who get bent over these things, you know, to me show a lack of tolerance. And you can't then turn around and wave the loyalty flag and say I only do that because I'm a great Christian. Well, no, that's not true. What you're doing is you're showing an intolerance to somebody who doesn't believe in what you do.
Speaker 2:Right, and I just want to read this from the Frontiers, and it says it's about the psychological impacts of rigid beliefs.
Speaker 1:Cognitive rigidity Studies indicate that individuals I think men suffer from cognitive rigidity don't they Toby? We are not going there. Help me, jesus Toby. Cognitive rigidity Studies indicate that individuals and women suffer from cognitive rigidity?
Speaker 2:Okay, studies indicate that individuals.
Speaker 1:And women suffer from cognitive rigidity. We're going to stay on that topic, but anyway.
Speaker 2:Where's your leash? I need something to calm you down.
Speaker 1:Like a toddler.
Speaker 2:she says I know Cognitive rigidity. Studies indicate that individuals with rigid religious beliefs often exhibit lower openness to experiences and higher need for closure, leading to a preference for certainty and a discomfort, a discomfort with ambiguity.
Speaker 2:and I think that that that's my point, and because I I know personally a lot of people who will not entertain any idea other than yeah, which is fascinating to me because these are educated people very often smart people, and I'm like, but in your natural process you listen and and I'm going to take this and I know someone people may call a blasphemous, but I'm okay with this because I know where I'm going with it but successful corporations and businesses constantly learn. They go back, they reevaluate, they look at what we did wrong, what we did right, how can we improve, and it's a constant reevaluation for the betterment of the good of the corporation. Now I'm bringing this up to talk about religion. If we are rigid and there's a rigidity and we won't be open to hearing something different or learning a different perspective, or be open to at least understanding you don't have to agree why people think- and feel.
Speaker 1:That was what I'd like to point out when you finish your thought.
Speaker 2:No, and I was like, but it's to me part of, and I'm going to take this back because at the core of most religion is love. So what we know about love and I'm not here to preach to anybody, I'm just here to question and say what's at the core of every person Consider, Consider. Well, we all know that as we age and with time, for those of who care to love, your love has been stretched. And it hasn't been stretched because of age. It hasn't been stretched because of time. It has been stretched because you chose to dig deeper. You chose to forgive when others didn't forgive. You chose to love when people didn't love. You forgive when others didn't forgive. You chose to love when people didn't love you. So it gives you the capacity and the more you stretch something, the better you become, because you're more open to it. And I don't understand for the life of me why we who profess to any kind of religion or belief aren't as open for the betterment of ourselves and of humanity.
Speaker 1:I may want to disagree, and I'm not sure if I'm disagreeing or not.
Speaker 2:You may want to disagree, but I'm not sure if I'm disagreeing or not because I'm not sure, if what you're saying is clear to me.
Speaker 1:In my mind, tolerance means that you don't think the way I do or you don't believe in what I do. But that's good, that's fine, I'm okay with that, I can put up with it, but it doesn't mean I'm going to change my beliefs to alter that. So, for instance, I do kind of have a problem with religions that start to try to pander to other beliefs that don't fall within the constraints of what they really believe in. So if I'm a church and I believe that I'm going to use the Wendy's church or I'm sorry, yes, the Wendy's church, and I'm not open on Sundays, okay, so the church of Wendy's.
Speaker 2:I'm closed on Sundays. Oh, this is just a there's no church of Wendy's. It's just a name? I don't think so.
Speaker 1:Okay, but I'm the church of Wendy's, so part of my foundation is I'm not open on Sunday. And then all of a sudden there are some people out there that go, they're not open on Sunday and I change my beliefs. I think that that's inherently wrong. I think a church or an institution stands for something and it has principles and morals and it has to be tolerant of people outside of that. But it shouldn't necessarily bend to the whims of either society or other pressures of either society or other pressures, unless the constituents see a change going on.
Speaker 1:So I think of things like you know, there have been situations where all of a sudden some religions will take on, you know, whether it's a homosexual priest or something like that. Now, is that acceptable? I don't know. I mean, does it show tolerance? I think so, but does it change the core nature of what that religion stands for? And I think a religion needs to look at itself inwardly and say that's not really what we stand for, or maybe it is what we stand for. But this idea that tolerance means we've got to change the way we think as an institution, no, no. I think what it means is tolerance means that the people within the church can say I think this way, but I'm cool with you thinking that way.
Speaker 2:I just have an issue with the word tolerance in anything it gets under my skin. That's just me.
Speaker 1:Acceptance you don't like that one either.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying. I mean live and let live. I understand that. But it's just like people like well, I tolerate, you like probably the wrong word yeah, yeah and so and I was like and and I hear that, and I hear that in that content, well, we tolerate, I'm like, but you know, it's like are you an omniscient being and you get to decide.
Speaker 1:I hear you maybe there's a better word out there, but for instance I know it's used all the time you and I live together. We're domestic and partners.
Speaker 2:And I tolerate you and I understand that and I can be intolerable.
Speaker 1:But you know, we live together. We're not married under God. God doesn't see us as oh, I'm not going to tell you any of the other stuff, it's just too. But to many people, us living in the same house would be considered blasphemous, right?
Speaker 1:And so all I'm saying is I understand if somebody came to us and said I'm not going to stay at your house, you're living in sin, and I'd be like, okay, I get it. I get it. As long as you can be accepting of our situation, we'll be accepting of yours, and if you don't feel comfortable staying in the house, I'm good with that. It shouldn't cause us a friendship. It shouldn't do anything other than recognize that we fundamentally have a different way of looking at things, and we're both I don't want to use the mature word, but we're both accepting enough of each other's circumstances to support that.
Speaker 2:But I think that's a different. I think it's different because it goes back to what's at the core of what I said earlier. That's personal, so you have a right to say you know, in my house, like you know, I have an aunt that was like no, you guys can't sleep in the same room. And we could be 99 years old, and if we're not married, it's not happening in her house.
Speaker 1:Not at 99, it's not happening, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God Okay.
Speaker 1:Sorry, okay, sorry. Can we get back to that rigidity for a second? No, no, we're not going to.
Speaker 2:But the point of it is I would never be upset with that because it should be your house, your rules. It's a problem when you try to make your house your rules outside of your house. Now you cross the line. And that's the same thing with religion and everybody building structure, whatever building you are, you have to say, just like you, you know it was a common saying in a black community that they came up in a church. Now, for me and my house, we're going to serve the lord. That's a common saying. Most black people that grew up in a church know that saying. It was like and essentially what it's saying is I don't care what you do in your house and what, but me and my house is, it's how we're going to live. I respect anyone. That's your house. I have an issue when you try to take the rules in your house and make it the rules outside take them on the road.
Speaker 2:Absolutely take them on a road trip that's when I have an issue with it and I don't understand why the need to. If I believe in God and, and, and I worship him and I have a true belief in him, why am I giving knocking another religion? I don't understand it. I was like to me. I have to say it and I know people won't like it. It's hypocritical. It's hypocritical. I want the right to believe what I believe, worship how I want to worship, and I want to give that right to everyone else. Why are we fighting each other if you're not trying to bring it in my home or you're not trying to make it the law of the land?
Speaker 1:But the problem is we are fighting to make it the law of the land and defining that as the law of the land so many of these religions have a self-sustaining clause in them If you were a company, you would call it a self-sustaining clause which says we need to make sure that we are the religion of the future, nobody else. So many of them say go to your friends, recruit your friends, tell them that this is the way, this is the only way, and I've mentioned this on another podcast. I had a very close friend in college, actually when I got out of college, who was a Southern Baptist and I'm not making a point of Southern Baptists, many religions are the same way and he felt like I was going to hell. And every weekend he just beat me up come to church with me, come to church with me, come to church with me. And he didn't care what I believed. It never came up. He never said what do you believe in and what do you follow? It was you need to come to church with me.
Speaker 1:And so finally, we had a I'll use the term we had to come to Jesus. And I said why are you so just belligerent about this? About everything else in life, you're like that doesn't matter, but this is like, oh my God, you have to go to church. And he said you don't understand If you don't go to church with me and become a Southern Baptist and claim Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you're going to hell. And he was emotional when he said it, so it was baked into the DNA of this religion that if I didn't go to church with him, I was going to go to hell. And he loved me and he didn't want me to go to hell.
Speaker 2:And I hear that. I hear that, but this is another thing that I I have to call out, and that's why I specifically picked the, the title of of this of about making a belief, because that's what religion is. I'm not making this up, it's a belief system. It's a belief, and when we make it an absolute because that's where it's this God, no God and nothing else and when we make it so rigid, it really makes it complicated to us for us to truly love our neighbor, because our neighbor could be an atheist, our neighbor could be Jewish, christian, and so if we really want to get down to core principles and values and love in each other, we have to make room for everyone. You don't have to think like them, you don't have to move like them. And my last statement is this is the part that blows my mind and I'm going to specifically address like Christianity, because I know it's a fight, and I'm only bringing this up because this is where we are in America.
Speaker 2:Well, it used to be. America was a predominantly Christian society. Well, now, with the change in the landscape, it's not. It's Christianity. Some it depends on where you read it. Some say it's the majority, some say it's not, and some even say we we're no longer a religious society. Whatever you believe, you believe, I'm not here to debate the numbers, but I I am here to question when we try to make it the law of the land. We want to put it, the bible, in the constitution. You know, in whatever way we want to take it, you know we put the just recently in the bible.
Speaker 1:We put well, I going to have a but here and, much like mine, it's going to be a big one. Well, before you get your big. But let me just finish.
Speaker 2:I was like here is a religion that is based on choice. Every Christian knows that it's a choice, because it's biblical and that's what the Bible says Choose. Ye, it's all about choice. You have a choice to believe me or not to believe me. You have a choice to follow God or not to follow God. So, if you have a choice and God has given us a choice, and that's what you believe and I'm saying God, because that's what I believe has given us a choice, why take that choice from somebody else? Why? Because that's what we do when we tell someone else that it has to be this way and this has to be the law of the land. So here comes my big butt. You ready for my big butt?
Speaker 1:okay. So I believe very strongly in individual rights to to practice what they do, providing it doesn't impede on my ability to do the same I've.
Speaker 2:I've said the same thing, but here's my big, but here's my big but.
Speaker 1:America and every country is founded on certain values, and the United States was founded on Christian values. And where that should manifest itself is in our laws, in things like the right to remain silent or the way that we conduct ourselves. Is a Christian society. Now you might just say, well, that's common. But let me give you an instance. Okay, there are certain other religions that don't believe in the Christian premise of laws. For instance, there's things called Sharia laws.
Speaker 1:And all of a sudden, we cannot be in a situation cannot's an absolute word, but I'll use it we cannot be in a situation where a religion is allowed to say, oh, we don't follow that, we don't follow those laws, we don't believe in those laws. So there is a sense at times where we have to agree on something for our world. There's a challenging problem in some countries in the world England is having one where there are huge populations of large religious populations and they're saying we no longer abide by your laws, we will abide by Sharia law. And you're like, wait, hold on a second. You know, Sharia law is practiced in a country where that religion is the basis of their foundational belief. The United States is founded on Christian values and so you can practice your religion.
Speaker 2:Well, how to? Where does church and state come in? When you say the United States, you?
Speaker 1:have to have some foundation of laws.
Speaker 2:No, I'm just asking a basic question. It is a.
Speaker 1:Christian country by definition Doesn't mean we can't be supportive of other religions and we are At the foundation is the Constitution.
Speaker 2:At the foundation there's a separation of church and state.
Speaker 1:There is but the values that derive. Our laws are derived from Christian values.
Speaker 2:But you also know, oh, we're not going to go there because that's a whole conversation, because at the same time those same laws.
Speaker 1:when you point out, but you cannot allow people to follow whatever laws they want to follow.
Speaker 2:We're not no, but that's all I'm saying. But you have laws and that's what the Constitution and the amendment is Right. But what if?
Speaker 1:somebody comes to this country and says my God tells me that my laws are these and I don't believe in your laws?
Speaker 2:Are you for church and state, separation of church and state or not? I don't understand what you're saying.
Speaker 1:All I'm saying is that's a somewhat immaterial conversation, because what I'm saying is the laws in our country were founded on principally Christian values. That's where they were founded. So people coming from other denominations or beliefs might say I don't believe in yours. The right that a woman is equal under the eyes of the law is not true in many religions.
Speaker 2:It wasn't true in the foundation of our law. Yes, it is.
Speaker 1:Women are considered the same as men.
Speaker 2:You said you just went back to founders and I was just being real. When our laws were founded, women weren't the same. Well, you're talking about things like voting. I'm talking about values as a human being.
Speaker 1:Okay, you might say that women couldn't vote. I understand that, but what I'm saying is that in some religions, women are looked at as less than a man, and what I'm saying you. But I can tell you that in Sharia law, your life is worth less than it is in a Christian society. And you need to. You don't need to do anything, but you should appreciate the fact that we cannot be in a situation where, just because we have religious freedom, that changes our laws. And that's all I'm saying. Well, I'm going to wrap up.
Speaker 2:I had no idea we would get to Shireel now, who knew where we were going to go?
Speaker 1:Because I did not know we were going there at all, I was not prepared for that Kind of jumped the shark.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because we literally were just talking about loyalty, but I want to thank you for joining us again at this perch. We're always at the core. We just ask that you know we pause and evaluate our responses because ultimately we all should try to do a job, then circumvent harm and really get to understand and know each other better. We get to know each other better when we actually talk to each other.
Speaker 1:The word of the day is acceptance. Oh sorry, I was doing my Sesame Street there. Are we on Sesame Street? Now I was, I was, oh my God, if we had to count here we could say the world of the no. No, he said 1-1,000. Oh, that's right, 2-2,000. Anyway.
Speaker 2:As we close this series, I want to share something personal about the journey that brought us here. When I begin counting the cost of loyalty, got you looking at me. Why stay true to what is failure? This is yeah, I'm, yeah, I'm keep, I'm stopping to kind of like buy time.
Speaker 2:That's really moving that better. Yes, sorry, I'm sorry. Here we go. As we close this series, I want to share something personal About the journey that brought us here.
Speaker 2:When I began Counting the cost of loyalty why stay true To what is value? These four topics Love, politics, careers and religion came to mind Immediately. I didn't know why. There was a deep connection would be revealed, and it revealed itself, and it did in ways I would never imagine.
Speaker 2:These topics aren't just significant, they're the unspoken taboos of our lives. We avoid talking about jobs because pay might come up. We dodge politics because knowing how someone votes could challenge our assumptions. Religion feels too sensitive and love feels too personal. These are the things that shape us most deeply, yet we build walls around them. But what if we open the door to real conversations, if we listen to each other without judgment? Maybe, just maybe, we discover we're not as divided as we think. Just maybe we discover we're not as divided as we think. Maybe we'll find growth in our relationships, in our communities and possibly even our faith. So, as we step away from this series, I invite you to reflect. What would it mean to bring these conversations into your life? To bring these conversations into your life, because when we make space to truly hear each other, we make space for understanding and change. And remember your perch isn't just a place to sit, it's a place to rise. Until next time, keep seeking the higher perspective.
