Perch "The Thoughtful Pause Podcast"
Welcome to the Perch Podcast Channel: The Thoughtful Pause Podcast
Perch stands for Pause, Evaluate, Responses to Circumvent Harm, a philosophy inspiring meaningful conversations. Hosted by Tricia Porter and Toby Malbec, seasoned business professionals and life partners, this podcast blends decades of expertise with a mission to foster understanding. Guided by the belief that where you sit determines what you see, and what you see determines what you do, they explore how experiences shape perspectives and how expanding our worldview fosters empathy.
From different races, worlds, and viewpoints, Tricia and Toby tackle complex topics with curiosity and a commitment to positive change. Unafraid of controversy, they challenge listeners to embrace a higher perspective and see differences as opportunities for connection. Whether seeking personal growth or a fresh lens on life, Perch is more than a podcast—it’s a mission. Join us to pause, reflect, and rise to higher ground.
Perch "The Thoughtful Pause Podcast"
Workplace Loyalty: Should You Commit to a Job That Can Never Truly Commit to You?
Workplace Loyalty: Is It Still Relevant in Today’s Shifting Culture?
In a world where workplace loyalty often feels one-sided, can we still find meaning in being committed to employers who may not always return the favor? As modern work culture evolves, we’re faced with uncomfortable truths about what it means to dedicate ourselves to our jobs truly and whether doing so is even worth it. Social media platforms like LinkedIn and Facebook have blurred the lines between professional identity and personal expression, adding complexity to our sense of belonging at work.
This episode challenges you to think deeply: Is loyalty a relic of the past, or can it adapt to a world where boundaries between work and life are increasingly fluid? Together, we explore the cost of allegiance, the power of setting boundaries, and how redefining commitment might allow us to reclaim our time, energy, and purpose.
Remember, your Perch isn’t just a place to sit; it’s a place to seek a higher perspective.
Good day Perch people. Thank you for joining. For those of you new, thank you and welcome. What are those marks that you are making?
Speaker 2:You know the way the president will get up and there's a guy who does like.
Speaker 1:Presidents, don't that's like court gestures.
Speaker 2:Anyway, welcome, not court gestures, hand signal, sign language Can we focus? I'm doing sign language.
Speaker 1:Okay, good job. So good job, toby. I'm going to give him a sock puppet and just put him in a corner and leave him over there. That's what we're going to do, I'm sorry, welcome. Thank you for joining this show Again. For those of you who haven't followed, we're in a four-episode series. This is episode three and it's been a series about loyalty, so in this episode it's about careers and the topic question for today is it normal to commit yourself to something that doesn't have the ability to commit to you? Where, say you, you want me to start Fire away, doesn't have the ability to commit to you? Waste to you. You want me to start.
Speaker 2:Fire away.
Speaker 1:So this is what I have to say and this came up for various reasons. It's almost similar to a show we had about a year ago this time, but this came out in a series, so it was, you know, par for the course. The question came up in a conversation that Toby and I was having because a lot's going on on LinkedIn. I don't know if anybody is on LinkedIn. For those of you on it, linkedin used to be a space where networking for professionals and a lot of the Facebook comments and posts and and political things that kind of cross it over into LinkedIn. But the question became you see, a lot of people who are making their purse their professional, like personal and they're taking everything personal and and they're venting out in public.
Speaker 1:Personally, you know, I think it's some. Some things are healthy. Everyone is entitled to do whatever we have to do. But Toby brought up the point and I thought it was worth discussing. Like you know, why do people feel like companies should be loyal? And they're not people, it's organizations, it's companies. So that led to a lengthy discussion. Companies so that led to a lengthy discussion. Ie led us to this topic.
Speaker 1:It's difficult, so I'm just going to say my two cents. Shocking, I'm in the middle. I get both sides because it is a network and it is a social network. It is, but it's also the place now that it's common for most companies to go to vet new employees, check your background and really look up on you. And one could perch we don't argue, we perch. One could perch and say that it should be a safe space to to help people who are having, you know, personal issues with corporations on how to cope, how to handle it. It's a support system. It's a network of like-minded individuals who sometimes felt silenced. They didn't have the voice, the support to speak up. And if it's for the betterment, which essentially will make you a better candidate or employee.
Speaker 2:No harm, no foul, yeah and this is going to surprise anybody who's listened to us before I tend to be pretty old school about this. The two social media channels that I use most exclusively is Facebook and LinkedIn. Again, for the demographic that I fit in, those seem to be the most common. But I really distinguish between Facebook being my friends and I'm very selective of who I let into that circle because it's a personal network. It's personal things about me or my family or things like that, and I covet that. That's not just any jamoke that comes along that goes into that grouping. Linkedin is different To me. Linkedin is a professional network and anybody who wants to network with me I'm good with it. So anybody who tries to connect with me short of you know, a rug salesman in Baghdad, I'm pretty sure it's probably not in my corporate circle. You know I'm going to invite or accept their invitation.
Speaker 2:But to your point, there seems to have been a change that went on recently where Facebook was always full of crazy shit, where people would post all kinds of stuff and obviously we had the political banter and if you have a friend who's a little bit fringe left or fringe right or whatever, you got used to that and you saw it and you either turned them off for a little while or you clicked past it and that was good. Now we're starting to see this in LinkedIn and I was really shocked because my perspective has always been LinkedIn is a professional network and you kind of keep your personal feelings out of that. It's this is what I do for a living. This is what I believe. Oh, here's an interesting article I saw about, you know, supply side economics, or? Hey, I just saw that Wendy's is signing up with Shake Shack to offer cheeseburgers on airplanes and something that fits into my lane. But now you're seeing people really weigh in on things that are opinionated and there's a bleed there.
Speaker 1:But I understand what you're saying. Two things. One, I've got to go back to Facebook, and Facebook to me and this is just me, it isn't it. I find it funny and you said it so I'm gonna call it out that people call a place for your friends. It's your friend, real friends aren't on Facebook, meaning your friends. You, you should be talking to, communicating and seeing. So if you have a Facebook friendship relationship, I for me, I just think that's weird, but that that's just me, because I mean, if I call you my friend, I'm talking well, but there are friends and their friends.
Speaker 2:I mean, we talked about it this morning. There's there's a gentleman that I went to school with that literally I haven't seen in 30 years. I would still consider him a friend. We went to high school together, we were best of buds, and I follow him through Facebook.
Speaker 1:Right. But back on the topic of careers. This goes back to our. I'm noticing a theme throughout all of these podcasts and a lot of it at the root, core of them is flexibility, and we've been so rigid on, I'm just going to say, old school versus new school. So, as far as corporate America, what its corporations look like, what its corporate accountability, what its corporate responsibility, it is evolving and every time there's evolution comes in. You know, resistance comes Whenever evolution like resistance, it's evil is is on the other side of that. So I think I hear it, I see it a lot. I see all the comments. I hear people say this is not a place for this and this is not a place for that. I get the differentiation when it's like politics or something, politics or something, but whenever it's in the vein of a career, a job, a corporation, there is an emotional element to it, there is a connection to it and there's expectations. And what I'm seeing now, and the data shows, those expectations are generational.
Speaker 1:We talked about this in a previous podcast that you know older people think the expectation is you should have no expectations. Your expectations you expect to get paid and expect to go home.
Speaker 2:I do work, you pay me. Lather, rinse, repeat, right.
Speaker 1:And that has evolved and there is an expectation is I expect to do work and I expect to get paid, but I also don't expect to get treated like a second class citizen. I don't expect to have a toxic, hostile environment and because there's such a push to get rid of the level of toxicity in corporations, that's the residual of it.
Speaker 2:But I always and again old school believe that your job was not a place for you to spout your own personal beliefs. It's a place to come in and work and do work. And I'm not saying you come in and you're an automaton. But I am shocked by and I'll leave it after this but I'm shocked by the fact that people share such visceral responses to things on LinkedIn. I was doing some work on LinkedIn earlier today and somebody posted an acquisition. So company A is acquiring company B.
Speaker 2:And five years ago you would have seen, oh, congratulations, or I hope it works out. This was they're going to drive them into the ground. These guys are bloodsuckers. You know, bye-bye restaurant, you'll never make money again. And I'm like holy cow, these are attacks. And the first thing I do when I see somebody who writes something very incendiary is I look at what their title is. So I see if they're like CEO of McDonald's or the IT manager at. You know, and most of the time these people have very now nebulous titles. You know, thought leader, blah, something like that. Or you know, disruptor or change agent. So now they're kind of hiding behind that as well, Although presumably their name is there and presumably it's them. But I'm surprised at how visceral their response was as opposed to and you know, I have the philosophy if I have an emotional reaction I'll tell my friends and colleagues, maybe, but I'm not going to post it on LinkedIn, where thousands of people could see it and judge me.
Speaker 1:I get that and people will judge and people do, and we have no control of that. But I find it interesting that and this is is I'm not trying to whitewash anything, but it's always so easy to pick on a little guy, it's always so easy to blame people and not companies or people in our processes. My point what happens when corporations are have some responsibility in this change of tone and conversation and they just wipe their hands from it, meaning corporation decide have decided to. When we went to the M&A, the mergers and acquisitions Society of America, and everybody is merging and acquisitions galore what corporations did is say now we have to, and with social media, we have to brand, we have to market, we have to make visible what we stand for. Follow me just for a minute. So corporations said okay.
Speaker 1:So they all came up and in the background I used to be in your business plan where nobody besides you know C-suite knew your business model, what your plan was, what your mission statement was.
Speaker 1:They start singing it to glory Corporations, we are leading the way of this and that and this and that, and so people raise their hand and say but it's toxic, but it's not, because now you have clearly articulated what you stand for. You have clearly took marketing stance, you took branding stance and said you all these things. So the people are saying, but it doesn't work for me, but it's toxic. But it's this because that's the visceral response, for when you say you are something and I see you are not, you didn't get this, so you can say, well, we didn't have social media, but people didn't know it. But when you put that S on your chest corporations and say this I am baby, you better you talk the talk, you better walk the walk, because people will in turn. That's why we have a views, reviews and people. Now, when they look for a job, they go to your site and say who you are, because loyalty. Now, that's why we're having this conversation. What is it? Because corporations aren't loyal and employees don't feel the need to be loyal.
Speaker 2:And I wanted to key on that because this four-part series has been very interesting because loyalty in each of these categories means something entirely different.
Speaker 2:It does we use the word the same. We use loyalty whether we're talking about a marriage or a relationship. We talk about loyalty to a company or loyalty to a cause, or I think on our next one we're going to talk about loyalty to religion or other organized social areas, but loyalty when it comes to a company has changed over the years, and I think that's what makes it so fascinating. When you told me we were going to do this topic, I started with a couple of theories, and one of them was people are more loyal back then than they are today. The facts don't bear that out, and so I want to talk about that for a second. The other thing was I just felt like loyalty today was non-existent, and everything I read led me to believe that it's not that loyalty doesn't exist, but that loyalty to your point exactly there has changed, and the contract has changed.
Speaker 2:The loyalty contract has changed. The other thing I wanted to talk about is loyalty to companies, two things Loyalty to a company you work for, we'll talk about in a minute. But loyalty to a brand, for instance, I would argue to a great extent is non-existent. And let me tell you why. I work in the restaurant industry. Tria works in the supply chain in the restaurant industry as well. What's prevalent in the restaurant industry? Tree works in the supply chain in the restaurant industry as well. What's prevalent in the restaurant industry is loyalty programs. Right by name, they call them loyalty programs. So starbucks has a loyalty program and wendy's has a loyalty program and a lot of the fast food brands have loyalty programs. And what do they do? Do they just say come see us because you love us? No, they say come see us and we'll give you free shit.
Speaker 1:But that makes a great. I don't know if this is where you're going, but it didn't even dawn on me to say that I'm a genius. You're not a genius, calm down. So what that says, though, it literally is the antithesis of where we are, because even loyalty programs aren't loyal.
Speaker 2:No, all you hear is I'm buying you.
Speaker 1:I am buying you, but even when you buy me, you use me like a old rubber shoe and throw me away. Because what you hear constantly is every time, almost every corporation out there that has a loyal program change it. They make it difficult, harder and harder, harder and harder same thing.
Speaker 2:50 000 miles, and it's 75 000 miles and that's where I was going is that loyalty programs do not espouse loyalty. They actually teach bad behavior. What they say is I'm going to give you free stuff as long as you do this. So come in three times, I'll give you this. Spend $100, I'll give you this, oh, and then next time you spend 150 and I'll give you this.
Speaker 2:It doesn't espouse loyalty, because what happens is when I get to that level and I get the free stuff, I then have to reevaluate Is it worth climbing that mountain again to get that free cheeseburger, or is it really worth climbing that mountain again and getting free upgrades on an airline? And what they do is you know, I fly American Airlines almost exclusively. Why? Because that's where my miles are. Am I loyal to them? No, I'm loyal to the fact that they will treat me differently than Delta, because I have cardboard status on Delta and I have executive platinum status on another airline and they treat me better. So my loyalty is to who's going to pay me off, who's going to buy me.
Speaker 1:And I hate it because the last podcast I actually had the definition and I don't have it with me. This is what I need to look at. When it comes down to loyalty, I'm a person that's a firm believer that words have power. I think we should stop saying loyal because it shouldn't be a loyalty, and I remember having this conversation and got a lot of pushback in leadership. I said, like you know, and I was called. I was like Patricia, you aren't loyal to this company.
Speaker 2:I said no, I'm gonna talk about.
Speaker 1:I said I am a hard-working, I am committed, I am loyal to myself and my beliefs, or whatever. Whoever gets me is gonna get someone who's gonna give a hundred and twenty percent. That's my character, that's my nature but, that's my loyalty and commitment to myself. But I don't owe a company loyalty. I owe them to show up and do the best job. Put a pin in that because I want to come back to that one.
Speaker 2:I just want to finish one more thing, and then we'll go in that direction.
Speaker 1:I'm putting a pin in it.
Speaker 2:Put a pin in that one Back to you In my world and we consult in restaurant business. I try to get our clients to get away from the loyalty word and use the word recognition. Recognize that your people, that your customers, are unique, and if you treat them as unique people, they will become fans, they will become fanatical. You know what fan means, right? So if you treat somebody differently, they will pay more, they will go further, they will cross the street, they will make changes in their plans because they are now loyal to you. A loyalty program does not make you loyal. A recognition program does. So let's go back to what you were talking about, which is how you define loyalty. When you work for a company and all companies will say to your point you're not loyal, you're not a loyal employee. So go ahead and start.
Speaker 1:and then I want to know what I was saying because we were having it. It's the word you know and and people say things naturally because it feels good and that's just not in my dna. If it's not truthful, I'm not saying it. It's not truthful meaning. Let's let's look at the definition, even in loyalty, in order for you to say you are loyal to something, even in a definition. I don't have the exact answer in front of me. Part of that is you will give and commit and do, even when you know it's not reciprocated, right? So that's what loyalty in a definition is. So tell me you're loyal to a company that decide one day you work 40 hours that they're not going to pay. You are you going? That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Let's be honest, so I started down the same road that you did, ironically enough and the first thing I said how would you define loyalty? So do we define loyalty by tenure, right? If you stay with a company for 30 years, are you loyal to them, you know? Or are you just so lazy you didn't want to go find another job? Or do you realize that you're coasting and nobody else will pay you for it?
Speaker 1:I said that this was. There was someone that worked for me and I said to this person this person was you could set your clock by this person. They came in, you could set your clock this person. They came in, you could set the plot your clock that they were gonna leave late and it was an hourly person and they were gonna come in and they were gonna leave late and they were committed to timing. But I said to that person and they wanted to be rewarded as such, because I'm loyal, that's what that person pretty much said to me. I was like being loyal to the chair that you sit your behind in I didn't use those exact words and actually coming in and looking out and doing your best and helping your team out. There's rules to this loyalty thing, but a lot of people think because of tenure and I noticed where you go, like how dare you? Let me go and I've been with you.
Speaker 2:30 companies in general. I mean, we hand out gold watches for somebody's been there for 30, 40 years and the presumption is you've been loyal to the company. So my theory that I went at when I started this is I think we're gonna find that people are less loyal today than they were before if we use the definition of loyal being tenure.
Speaker 2:So, I said, I just Googlized and said, you know, are people's tenures going down as the years go on. So my dad worked for IBM for a gazillion years. You know are tenures as a whole going down, and this is what I found. According to the Employee Benefit Research Institute, or the EBRI, for those you like to name drop, over the past 40 or nearly 40 years, the medium tenure of all waged and salary employees aged 25 years or older has. Has it gone up, gone down or remained about the same?
Speaker 1:One more time.
Speaker 2:Over the past 40 or so years, the medium tenure of all wage and salary employees over 25 years old has it gotten longer, has it gotten shorter? Has it stayed about?
Speaker 1:the same, it stayed about the same it has stayed about the same.
Speaker 2:It has stayed about the same in about five years. So whether you go back 40 years ago or now, people are staying, on average, about five years.
Speaker 1:I kept digging because I saw different data points too, and I have some too. I have a problem with that data and I and I have a problem with the data because data can be manipulated, that's just. I'm gonna go to put that on my tombstone. Um, it can't, because I find it hard to believe, because we all know people that senior and majority of those people stay with the same company.
Speaker 2:I guess for every one of those there's somebody who stays for a year, because literally it says that the median tenure has stayed about the same. Now what's interesting has happened is that the overall trend masks a small but significant decrease in tenure among men, but an offsetting increase in tenure among women, and I have some data here too, but this is one this is my own data point that I'm going to create and throw out there.
Speaker 1:I have no facts to support what I'm about to say. I'm just going to throw out a hypothetical.
Speaker 2:So you're just spitballing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not going to put a number, but I'm just saying the reason why I struggle with this. I'm making a point because we know factually, for forever I would even besides IT, venture to say the last 20 years, outside of IT American workers worked locally in their community. They just did so. Whatever the big plant was. Whatever it was, that plant typically fed most of the town. Through a historical lens, that's how America work has been and small towns and small towns for the most part.
Speaker 1:But my point being and it wasn't until even remote work started in IT over 20 years ago. But when remote work started it started changing the landscape so people didn't have to commit. But it's hard when you're in small towns or even, you know, sometimes even big cities. You don't have the luxury, where it's far sometimes to get around.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I just struggle with that. I don't buy that and the numbers don't bear out what you're saying.
Speaker 1:Right, if you say so.
Speaker 2:I know that's what it is, so that to me was shocking too because I expected that the tenure 20, 30 years ago would have been 10 years and now it's five years and we would have seen this decline. And that's not what the numbers say.
Speaker 2:But what is interesting, is that men's tenure is getting shorter, so it's clear that men are looking to move faster and women are staying longer, which tells me or at least my conclusion is they covet security and just the comfort of being in the job rather than chasing something else, and that probably speaks more to the nature of men versus women, but that shocked me.
Speaker 1:It really did. But I find it fascinating too, because I have the data too on, you know, retention and companies spend so much money to retain because they know they. It's like the the old saying. The song goes it's cheaper to keep her, you know they it ain't, but that's okay, but it is. That's why that's why corporate corporations rather and they know this it's it's retention. So 20% of HR managers prioritize employees' retention as their top concern.
Speaker 2:I don't believe that for a second.
Speaker 1:I believe it, I know it because that's what I've experienced in every corporation I have.
Speaker 2:You think they spend more money trying to retain people than hire people?
Speaker 1:No, no, to retain them and not to lose them. No Meaning, I don't believe that for a second. I mean, look at how much if you talk and this is a good thing to do. Yeah, hr, people are doing cartwheels right now.
Speaker 2:They won't tell you this, but if you find a company spends more time and effort and money on hiring people than it does retaining people, move along and I think you're going to find that a lot in companies, and sometimes just innocuously. You can ask an hr manager what's your primary role here, and if they don't tell you their primary role is to grow the, the knowledge base and the people that they have, but it's to hire and fire move along.
Speaker 1:Well, we'll have a whole different.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna get off this subject because that's a whole another hr nightmare conversation right there.
Speaker 1:But it says supportive culture. Um, according to Zappa, 79% of employees, 79% of employees reported they they would stay longer yeah to a job where they feel supported, care for how often does that? Happen. But the funny thing is, 79% said I would they didn't say they weren't.
Speaker 2:I am like yeah, I would say if they'd actually walk the walk cares about me yeah, you know, we've all worked at companies that that say you know, we're for employee first and all that. And companies that really do reward their employees or make for a healthy work environment benefit you see the tenure in those organizations. And you know, again, I work in restaurants, you know, and I'll go visit a restaurant company and this guy's got 17 years of tenure and this young lady has 12 years of tenure and this one has four, and then I'll go the next day or the next week to another one. It's like I've been here six weeks and I'm the longest tenured person. You're like, oh, okay, well, that tells me a lot.
Speaker 1:Well, I just want to add this one thing, and I don't want to have an HR back and forth, but I do have to add and this is of course, it's a speak app the financial implications. The cost of replacing an employee can be substantial, often amounting to twice their annual salary. That translates from $25,000 to $100,000 to replace one.
Speaker 2:But that's common sense talking. How many times have we seen a company lay off 5,000 people and two weeks later what do we see? They're hiring. So they haven't walked the walk.
Speaker 1:But that's a whole other show and that's a reason for that, even though it seems a lot.
Speaker 2:It's asinine, it's unbelievable. So I absolutely agree that the HR's primary role is to help create if we want to use the L word loyal employees. So I want to share something. Forbes magazine did an interesting survey and they surveyed 2,000 employees. Actually, they didn't do the survey West Monroe did. 2,000 employees conducted a consulting firm. West Monroe revealed some surprising numbers. The survey found that 82% of employees felt a sense of loyalty to their current employer. 82%. That's pretty good. Now, that's impressive.
Speaker 1:but there is a problem, but the key word is a sense of loyalty. They didn't say they were loyal. It gets much better. They felt.
Speaker 2:Even though 82% felt the sense of loyalty, 59% said they'd leave the current job for a more appealing offer. So what the hell is loyalty Right? So yeah, I'm loyal to the company. Oh, you got a better offer. Slam.
Speaker 1:Well, at least they felt a sense of it. We want to boo you. It's like when I put on my Spanx I feel the sense that my stomach is flatter than it is until I take it off. So it's not real.
Speaker 2:I mean, but they just felt the sense of it. I can't loyalty.
Speaker 1:Hey, we know how I feel you put it on and address it straight.
Speaker 2:I don't have a problem with my Spanx, so I felt a sense of curse, but then, when I took it off, it was a life raft. Six out of ten would be like loyal schmoyle, See ya.
Speaker 1:Loyal schmoyle, loyal schmoyle. That's a Joe Biden right there.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, let me do my, joe Biden.
Speaker 1:No, please, no, no, no, please. Let's get back on it. You know people listen to this audio. They're not going to see how ridiculous you're doing that.
Speaker 2:I like jelly beans.
Speaker 1:Stop it.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry Okay.
Speaker 1:We're back. I'm sorry for the people that's watching on listening on Spotify.
Speaker 2:I apologize, see what you miss if you don't do the video. Yes, right, you are disturbed.
Speaker 1:Disturbed, no Disturbed. Oh my God, you made me lose train of thought, my voice is gone.
Speaker 2:Oh well, God shot.
Speaker 1:Excuse me, I'm back. Okay, you're back I just want to do a quick. This is from the US Chamber of Commerce and I find tell you why I find it funny after I read it. A significant number of employees leave their position due to dissatisfaction of pay. A Pew Research Center study said that 63% of workers who quit cited low pay.
Speaker 2:Everybody. Tell me anybody, but I promise you, tell me anybody who believes they're paid appropriately.
Speaker 1:I promise you. I have heard this and I know some people just laugh when I say this. Most HR would say people don't leave because of pay, they leave because of management. That's what HR will tell leaders in the organization and leaders will say to HR no, I would defy you to find two people in your organization.
Speaker 2:There's always one, so two people in your organization that go. One, so two people in your organizations go. No, I'm fairly paid and most likely, if those people are the case, it means they do jack nothing. What's my favorite expression? Well, we can't say we can't say that one that would. That would take our r rating above itself, so they don't do anything. I don't know of any employee that's ever worked with me, for me around me, who would say, yeah, I'm fairly, fairly compensated.
Speaker 1:So yes, we all leave. Well, I will be. I will be a liar and a hypocrite if I didn't say I I have, and it's one of the survey questions and we asked and a lot, of, a lot of people have worked for me said you know they are, you know. Okay, again, just like that sense of loyalty um a sense of comfortability.
Speaker 2:We all believe we're worth more right, I think everybody would want more money. We all believe that we really our value is greater than we get. But we do that equation. We say you know what? I believe I'm worth X, but I'm willing to work for X minus. I don't know if we all feel that.
Speaker 1:I'm sure the majority do, but I have known some people, even personally in my life, said that they felt like they were kind of overpaid, meaning I want to do more and they're not giving me more to do so. For the work that I've been given, I'm fairly compensated.
Speaker 2:I've heard people say I'd like to take on more responsibility, but I never hear them say since I have less responsibility.
Speaker 1:You could pay me before no say. They felt like they were fairly compensated is what I said because of they're not giving enough to stretch them.
Speaker 2:So one of the things that came out of this article from Forbes and also another one that came out in March 2023 I want to go real quick is it said as a manager, what's your role in terms of loyalty? And and it said one of the things it said was interesting said it's your job to show loyalty to your employee. First, show them that you'll help them become their best, show them that they can trust you, show them that you support them and presumably loyalty will come over time and typically loyalty will be to you as their manager and not necessarily to the company. And then then the other one they said, which is really interesting they said you, as a leader, can only control your loyalty to them. You can't control their loyalty to you. They said we've personally seen so many managers get trapped in trying to fix employee behavior. That seems like the job of a boss, but it's not. Your job as a leader is to focus on what you can do to bring the best out of people and in return, at some point perhaps they will show loyalty, but you can't control their side.
Speaker 2:The other piece I wanted to hit really quick is this article in Forbes, march 2023, that said Employee loyalty isn't dead, it's just changing. And I want to read this real quick. It says unlike some of our older colleagues, gen Zers are comfortable in the rapidly changing web of variables in the world we live in. Uncertainty is their natural habitat. You've never known the world any other way. So constant change means you can count on nothing to stay the same.
Speaker 2:Thus, young people today are less likely to trust the system or the organization to take care of them for an indefinite period of time. And that means they're less likely, less likely to make short-term sacrifices for promises of long-term rewards, because they don't think they're going to be around. And then, finally, young people today look at the large, established organization and think, and I'm sorry, don't look at the large organization and say I wonder where I fit in their picture. What they say is I wonder how you fit in mine. So loyalty is now personal. It's like what can you do for me? Oh, you can do that for me. Yeah, I'll be loyal.
Speaker 1:I'm good with that, but not.
Speaker 2:I'm going to have to wait a year or two years, or how many times have we heard you know through our career, you're too young for that advancement, or you need three more years before you go.
Speaker 1:Eh, that don't float anymore. And I really want to be clear when I say this. This is not to knock anyone in their perception and the way they see things. I am one who will wholeheartedly say and direct that Logistics has been good to me and I was like so you won't have me. I was like and I say the industry itself, I don't give even, I'll work for.
Speaker 1:You know different companies and my tenure has been long and most of those companies, but I think logistics and I think if you're in a medical profession, if you're in restaurant and hospitality, whatever we are, it's been stress, there's been strife, ups and downs, bad economies and all of that, but at the end of the day, these, the industry itself, is how we've been able to take care and provide our families. And so I think for me I would always say it's great to you know, we call it bless the blesser. So it's great to bless what you know. We call it bless the blesser, so it's it's great to to to bless what has blessed you. So I think it's good to say you know, cause I don't want to leave with a sour note Like this is bad and that's bad. I'm saying whatever, if, if you have been fortunate to be in the same industry and sometimes it's been hard people you change jobs, you've been downsized, acquisitions bought out, let go, all of that, get it. But if you have been in that same mortgage industry, whatever you've done, and look back at the positive, on what you've gained from and how, in the end, it has been a provider, it may have been rough and and it had its patches, so so I just want to end on that positive note.
Speaker 2:Well, what I was going to say too, and I want to wrap the two pieces that I had together.
Speaker 1:You're going to take us higher. You're not going to bring us down, are you no?
Speaker 2:I believe today's loyalty is really good, because I think if you're loyal to yourself, then ultimately you will be the best you can be. Being loyal to some company that doesn't have your best interest in mind whether they say they are or not is not correct. You don't have to be conceited and self-serving to be loyal to yourself. And the last thing I wanted to say and it wraps together the loyalty that we talked about before with loyalty to a brand and loyalty to a company and this was again this came out of psychology today.
Speaker 2:Loyalty to an organization today is kind of the loyalty you give to a customer. An organization gets exactly as much loyalty as they are willing to pay for, and it lasts as long as they keep paying. The real question for employees now is what kind of payment is valuable enough for me to remain loyal to your organization? So remain loyal to yourself. In this particular case, loyalty to a company, I believe is a mirage, and I believe that it may have existed at one point in time, and it's now loyalty to ourselves and we bet on ourselves every day.
Speaker 1:And while you were talking, this came to me because it's like I can hear people talking, that's watching this and saying what's wrong with being loyal? What's wrong with being loyal? If that's the word you choose and that's what you choose to do, then do you. But here is something I ask everyone to consider. The reason why it's concerning when you're loyal to a company or corporation is loyalty goes hand in hand with personal, and so you're making something that's transactional, because that's what our pay is, that's what our work. It's transactional. You're making it personal. So when we make it personal, it hurts all the more. It's harder to heal. You know, it's like I've been loyal, I've been faithful and you did this to me and it's not personal, even though it's happening to us. Corporations do what corporations are going to do, and they're always going to do what's in their best interest.
Speaker 2:The other thing is you can still be loyal and leave a company. You see, there seems to be a fallacy where people say, of all the things I've done for you and now you leave, and where's your loyalty? They're not the same thing. So if you're out there saying, do I leave this company, I have a great opportunity, but this company's been so great, Loyalty is not defined by whether you leave a company or not. You could be loyal to the day you leave and after that you're loyal to yourself and a company should understand that and in a company that's mature and professional might say wow, Tree had a great opportunity. We understand why she left and we hope one day she'll come back because she was a great employee and we loved having her here and the door is always open.
Speaker 1:Now, how dare they leave me Right? And on that end, I'll leave with these amazing words to thyself be true, no paycheck or title will ever sit at your bedside in your final moments, but your family, your relationships and the memories you've created with them. That's your legacy. If you feel stuck because you think I can't afford to leave, ask yourself can you afford to lose more time? Time is the ultimate investment. Spend it wisely. Your perch isn't just a place to sit. It's a place to arrive above and to gain perspective. Take the time to evaluate where your loyalty is leading you and whether it's worth the cost. Until next time, honor your time and this the most valuable thing you'll ever own Until we meet again.
Speaker 2:We'll talk again soon.
Speaker 1:Be well, see you guys in Perch, thank you.
